Thursday, October 18, 2012
project eternity
A link to this blog was posted on Obsidian forums. The topic "Women, Feminism, etc. in PE" (project eternity)
The post was reported (as it should) and it's likely to get deleted, however, if any of the visitors that came through it want to say anything, please do so here, even if you just want to vent out on how evil I am :3
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So what of it? What PE have to do with your art?
ReplyDeleteIm not sure Im following...
To be honest your works have always been more positive than others'. For one, your characters are always consensual. They appear to be enjoying it. There's no rape or abuse. There are FAR worse things on the web. Your art is fresh air compared to some of the outright misogynistic stuff out there...
ReplyDeleteSanders, don't worry about it, I just wanted to open a post in case any of the people that followed the link wanted to say something. It just happens that I use the nick "Vaesark" for everything, and that can attract a bit of trouble sometimes.
ReplyDeleteTsathoggua, actually I have done "rape fantasy" renders, almost every time they were requested by women... go figure...
I'm not even turned on by it, I just do it for the sake of variety and fulfilling requests by the most part.
...and always doing a fine job! Like I said, even the fan request subject matter had a classy element to it, I must say.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of which... Do you think you'll ever do a set with the girl in your background (on the left)? She's striking! :D
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteVaesark I have been following your work here for some time now and I love every bit of it. You and Zafo are my two favorite artists. If this blog goes down for any reason I will be heart broken. With that being said anyone that wants it gone needs a good ol fashioned kick in the head.
ReplyDeleteTsathoggua, both girls appeared on the second round of requests. Check it out:
ReplyDeletehttp://vaesark.blogspot.com.es/2012/02/requests-round-two.html
Sove, it will happen eventually, we should enjoy while we can. Over the years laws have become more and more strict, it's a matter of time that monster&creatures are outlawed too. Eventually everything that doesn't have "feminist/far right conservatives" approval will be outlawed.
stupid cunts. back to the underground i guess?
ReplyDeleteHeh. Marxist pomo-feminism doesn't really care if real women like rape fantasies. They consider such women traitors to the cause. Just have look at how they treated Brooke Magnanti (PhD).
ReplyDeleteThough I suspect monsters will always remain off the radar. Too uncommon. They are piecemeal people.
I'm a big-time feminist and a huge fan of your work. Fetishes are fetishes, and there's nothing wrong with degrading sex if it's consensual (or the characters are imaginary). Society as a whole is degrading to women in a lot of ways, and that needs to stop, but what individuals do in the bedroom or masturbate to is not our business. And I wouldn't consider a woman who gets off on being degraded a traitor to feminism; I would consider asking her out.
ReplyDeleteFeminists are rather split on porn in general, but the majority are okay with it. So long as you don't say things like "women should be fucked by monsters" and just stick with "here are women being fucked by monsters", the sane ones won't give you flack.
If only there were more of you ...
ReplyDeletePart of the problem is that the marxists managed to entrench themselves in academe, delivering lies to impressionable students, so now all the research done is intended to incriminate males, something the data simply does not support. You probably know, but for the others, Hoff Sommers has the gist.
No, I don't subscribe to your weird conspiracy theories. Women are still at a huge disadvantage in our society. There are less women the further you go up in business, women are still expected to be the default care-givers for children, women are portrayed as sex objects in a variety of media, far less media passes the bechdel test than the reverse bechdel test, men are the protagonists in most media, women are still far more likely to be harassed on the street, etc, etc, etc. None of this is "incriminating males." There is still a ton of work that needs to be done.
ReplyDeleteVaesark, I'm sorry that people are harassing you under the banner of feminism. Many people are squicked out by bestiality and will take any excuse they can to justify their reactions. I think what's important is that "people have access to bestiality porn" would sound completely out of place in the list of feminist complaints above.
MoltenPhoenix, "Society as a whole is degrading to women in a lot of ways, and that needs to stop"
ReplyDeleteyou could perfectly say: "Society as a whole is degrading to men in a lot of ways, and that needs to stop"
Both genders face problems and while feminists claim to be for "equality" they will only do so when it benefits women. This is no "conspiracy theory" it can be easily demonstrated examining their speeches and initiatives. For example death rates on jobs are around 90%+ male 10%- female, could you point me to the articles and manifestations of feminists denouncing this "inequality" Meanwhile they will complain that not enough women are CEOs, apparently the systematic death of one gender on their jobs is not an issue as important as what genitalia has the boss. I can list a lot of examples like this but... I don't want to extend myself too much, and you probably have already heard of them.
"So long as you don't say things like "women should be fucked by monsters" and just stick with "here are women being fucked by monsters", the sane ones won't give you flack."
uh... well, perhaps the "not sane" ones are just more loud, ...or they are the majority.
"Feminists are rather split on porn in general, but the majority are okay with it."
I don't think that there's any poll/study on the matter but the majority that I've seen are definitely NOT ok with it, from their point of view is a vile exploitation of women and degrading by default.
"women are still expected to be the default care-givers for children"
And men are expected to be the ones to pay the bills, but neither genders is obligated to anything.
"women are portrayed as sex objects in a variety of media"
like... my blog I guess? apparently by fulfilling sexual fantasies I am oppressing women, ok, and you are a fan of my work? o_O dafuk?
"far less media passes the bechdel test than the reverse bechdel test"
1st world (non)problem.
"men are the protagonists in most media"
says who? I don't watch TV very often but when I do I don't see much difference.
"women are still far more likely to be harassed on the street"
Men are far more likely to suffer violence/death on the street.
None of this is "incriminating males." heh, don't get me started on this one because I'm afraid that your fellow feminists are really loud on the articles that they write... but I'm too tired to make a list with all the links now.
Maybe tomorrow we can discuss "the holly spirit" and "the original sin" ... sorry, I meant: "the patriarchy" and "the male privilege".
"So long as you don't say things like "women should be fucked by monsters" and just stick with "here are women being fucked by monsters", the sane ones won't give you flack."
ReplyDeleteI correct you for the sane:"here are Polygons being fucked by monsters"
As a feminist and long-time fan, I have you say you're entirely in the wrong that feminists a) want to ban things from the net, and b) have any power whatsoever to do that.
ReplyDelete(same anon as above) Vaesark, all the assertions you made in your most recent comment are wrong, and I'm sorry if that sounds brusque. The fact of the matter is that feminism is AGAINST all the things you mentioned as negatives there. Feminism doesn't make men fight wars and force them to pay the bills, patriarchy does.
ReplyDeleteIt's easy to land in a misconception about what feminism is and is not, with most of mainstream media out to paint it in an erroneous way, so I suggest you do a little more research and maybe read a feminist theorist or two before you make such broad generalisations in the future. And keep making your delicious art.
"As a feminist and long-time fan, I have you say you're entirely in the wrong that feminists a) want to ban things from the net, and b) have any power whatsoever to do that."
ReplyDeleteThen why the hell do they support initiatives such as the proposed by: http://www.moralityinmedia.org/
http://www.facebook.com/PornHarms?
"all the assertions you made in your most recent comment are wrong, and I'm sorry if that sounds brusque. The fact of the matter is that feminism is AGAINST all the things you mentioned as negatives there. Feminism doesn't make men fight wars and force them to pay the bills, patriarchy does."
This is outright insulting, feminists define patriarchy as a system designed to privilege men and give them power at the expense of women. Men love dying/getting mutilated, men love to pay alimony and child support?
And if they were against these things can you point me to their initiatives in that regard?
You basically just said: you are wrong, because... uhm ... patriarchy! yeah thats right.
"with most of mainstream media out to paint it in an erroneous way,"
no, they portray themselves quite well, no need for the media here.
"so I suggest you do a little more research and maybe read a feminist theorist or two before you make such broad generalisations in the future."
ok, you asked for it, lets see what feminists write about:
Wolf-whistling = sexual violence
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/08/wolf-whistling-harassment-street
A Man Is a Rape-Supporter If…
http://evebitfirst.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/a-man-is-a-rape-supporter-if/
Men need to "man up" and be the providers:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704409004576146321725889448.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsFifth
male sexual fantasies= misogyny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCUrtFnofQM&list=UU7Edgk9RxP7Fm7vjQ1d-cDA&index=26&feature=plcp (watch the entire channel, it's priceless)
Urinals oppress women (lolwut?)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2012/06/stop-stand-up-urination-for-men-swedish-politicians-urge.html
Males can't have any problem because... uhm... patriarchy! yeah... and they are extremists if they dare to complain
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/shepherd-mens-rights-extremists-go-online/story-fn34ojzj-1226240201714
Sexually objectifying men is a good thing but don't you dare to sexually objectify women, you misogynist!
http://jezebel.com/5572097/why-shameless-objectification-can-be-a-good-thing
and so on and so forth... and I'm not even counting the radicals like:
http://www.youtube.com/user/FemitheistReborn
"And keep making your delicious art"
You mean my: "sexually objectifying", "woman degrading", "misogynistic" "vile, disgusting porn" renders, because thats how the feminists that emailed me every now and then refer to it.
I never mentioned specifically why I had to remove all the beast stuff... why don't you guess it? I'll give you a clue, starts with the letter "F".
We all know that the feminists who rage against art like Vaesark's are jealous of his girls getting the fuck of their life.
ReplyDeleteAnd since they can't have it, no one should. But then the solution seems obvious...
...science, get to it!
You know, there are issues with both sides of the argument. I would like to mention that a few decades ago, in the US, the female rights movement was gaining enough steam that they were considering legislation that would remove any legal difference between men and women. Then, someone pointed out a few things. First was that that would mean women no longer got protections for being pregnant and giving birth, meaning that they could be terminated from their job for taking too long in that area. Second, it would mean that women would have been required to register for the draft and potentially be forced to fight in wars as well. When that became widely known, the issue was dropped. The point of that being, they don't want equal treatment, they want treatment that leaves them with the special exemptions they have now and forces the world to put them on the same playing field as men, in terms of things like affirmative action.
ReplyDeleteNow, I realize this doesn't apply to the majority of feminists. Rather, it applies to the very vocal minority. The very vocal minority is what makes any group look incredibly stupid, be it Christians, feminists, Muslims, or even unions. Unfortunately, because the majority of groups like this tend not to be vocal, people automatically assume that the very vocal, very extreme minority actually holds the majority opinion for the group, because they don't see anyone else in the group saying anything different. It even feeds on itself, as the vocal minority builds on what it has said in the past and the majority refuses to contradict them.
In other words, don't listen to the people standing on the soapbox. Instead, go to the crown listening to them, and ask them what THEY think. That's why the feminists in this thread tended to mention they like what vaesark has to offer. It's because they realize that it's a minority opinion that is assumed to be the majority by dint of sheer volume.
Oops, sorry, Vaesark, for leaving you alone in a fight I apparently started. I thought I had found a knowledgeable ally in MP, but I was evidently mistaken.
ReplyDeleteMarxism is of course a reasonably good conspiracy theory in its own right, and the radical (marxist) feminism it inspired, likewise. In places you can even see the inspiration clearly: The Patriarchy is the Bourgeoisie, class war has become gender war, and men have replaced the rich as the enemy. Marxism at the very least at the time made some sense, in the intervening time it's become somewhat odious because of the murders and general oppression.
Rad-fem split with sane feminism over Valerie Solanas, a nut so loony she reads like Adolf Hitler, and it's her writings in watered down form that shapes their ideas of what the patriarchy is.
MoltenPhoenix (and anyone who believes in the ideas of objectification and patriarchy): go read the history of your movement. In particular, read Christina Hoff Sommers, Camille Paglia, and for pomo Alan Sokal, and Gross and Levitt. Let's not forget Brooke Magnantis The Sex Myth, either. Pomo (a reality-rejecting philosophy) and feminism were heavily intertwined before 1995, and it still influences the movement. Marxism likewise.
Feminism has been shedding allies left and right. There are reasons why we are so angry.
Vaesark I was going to defend you until reading your sexist, anti-feminist rants here. Your views on feminism are uneducated and ignorant and I feel no sympathy for what some feminists are doing to you. Hope they succeed and getting your crappy art taken down!
ReplyDeleteAnon, " I was going to defend you until reading your sexist, anti-feminist rants here. Your views on feminism are uneducated and ignorant and I feel no sympathy for what some feminists are doing to you."
ReplyDeleteso, instead of arguing any points you just throw insults... very educated indeed.
"Hope they succeed and getting your crappy art taken down!"
Is there any particular reasons why my "crappy art" should be taken down? Simply because I'm not a feminist?
"so, instead of arguing any points you just throw insults"
ReplyDeletePretty much. More intelligent people already tried to explain the issues to you but instead of listening you attempted do derail the issue of feminism and equality with the canned "but men have xyz too!!11" response. So, as the saying goes, don't argue with idiots on the internet ... they'll drag you down to their level and beat you by experience ;)
"Is there any particular reasons why my "crappy art" should be taken down? Simply because I'm not a feminist? "
Sounds good to me; forgive me for not having much sympathy for racists and sexists. Please go back to school, take a class on sociology and art as well hon, you could use the mental stimulation ;)
"Pretty much. More intelligent people already tried to explain the issues to you but instead of listening you attempted do derail the issue of feminism and equality with the canned "but men have xyz too!!11" response. So, as the saying goes, don't argue with idiots on the internet ... they'll drag you down to their level and beat you by experience ;)"
ReplyDeletederail? I quoted and argued their points directly with actual arguments and examples, unlike them "more intelligent people" who simply blame it all on patriarchy or just repeat the slogans and propaganda that they have told to be the ultimate truth, labeling anyone who argues "the truth" as a misogynist/sexist/whatever.
"Sounds good to me; forgive me for not having much sympathy for racists and sexists. Please go back to school, take a class on sociology and art as well hon, you could use the mental stimulation"
So, you claim that I'm racist and sexist only because I'm not a feminist, and that is all the justification needed to silence/censor me?
At this point it all seems a poor attempt at trolling so, unless you give up the ad hominem arguments and try to explain why I am a racist/sexist that should be censored no more comments will be approved.
Feminism is itself hugely sexist, and disagreeing with it is the sane thing to do. Anon, do you seriously think that men cannot know anything about theories that concern them? You are the one who chose to join a misandric communist cult. And pomo sociology is worthless as a scientific theory. Read Pinker's The Blank Slate for why.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone is ignorant, it's the feminists.
Bah bah bah bah.
ReplyDeleteThis is the internet. Like with other good ideas, you'll have a share of people who take feminism way too far.
I like to think of myself as a feminist. I also have a lot of respect for a girl who can enjoy a good spanking. Problem?
Equal rights, equal opportunities, fighting rape, cat-calls and harrassment, those are all causes I can get behind. So is fictional art of beautiful babes having insane sex with monsters. Deal with it. I'm sure the monsters are feminists too.
PS: Vaesark - Obsidian should SO hire you for character art. If that had been an option on their kickstarter they would have made millions.